EARLY ALL-AMERICANS FROM THE BADGER STATE…PART 1

(Yes, I know I promised some other blogs, but I decided to do the next two first. Sorry for the delay in those stories).

An email from historian and writer for MaxPreps, Kevin Askeland, mentioned that he was putting together his own All-American teams starting from 1910-1946. Starting in 1947 the Wigwan Wiseman Organization first chose a team and in 1951 Scholastic Coach magazine printed their first squad. There have been many others…Coach and Athlete Magazine, Kickoff Magazine, USA TODAY, and Parade Magazine to name a few. I have profiled a number of players from the 1910-1946 era and so, I decided to push for Wisconsin players on Kevin’s lists. It may take a while for Kevin’s lists to be compiled and posted but here’s a start. What follows are my choices for All-American status taken from my All-Decades profiles. Yes, I know I’m leaving off some greats who could potentially be on the teams but remember, there are 47 other states with players to consider. Yes, 47. Remember that Alaska and Hawaii were not part of the union until 1959 and 1960.

I’ve looked at several lists online that purport to highlight great high school football players, but I find some of their lists wanting. As an example, one list had Johnny “Blood” McNally from New Richmond, WI. The problem is that he never played high school football as he graduated from high school at age 14. He went to college for one year at St. John’s (MN) and played football, basketball, baseball, and track. He then transferred to Notre Dame in 1926 but dropped out to continue to play semi-pro football which he started to do in 1922. He eventually played in the NFL for 16 years, making the Packers and the NFL HOF’s.

Next is Leo Nomellini who was named to an Illinois list of great high school players. It’s true that he was an outstanding NFL player and a very good professional wrestler but according to Wikipedia he didn’t start playing football until after he was in the Marine Corps during WWII. In a search of the Chicago Tribune for his high school years I found no mention of him playing football. A native of Italy who moved with his family to Chicago as an infant, he attended Chicago Crane High School but didn’t play football until 1942 in the Marines. It’s interesting that the Illinois list had him playing for Crane in 1941. After the war he attended the University of Minnesota and then played 14 years in the NFL earning NFL HOF, College Football HOF, and the San Francisco 49’ers HOF but he NEVER played high school football.

Another list has great Ohio high school football players and at the top of the list is Roger Staubach. Now, don’t get mad at me but here is his senior year, 1959, stats: Rushing for 432 yards (Third best on the team) and four scores while passing for 522 yards and four touchdowns. Yes, he was the team's captain, he made the Cincinnati All-Area first team and earned some all-state mention, but he was by no means a super star. He went to New Mexico Military Institute (A junior college) to prepare for entrance into the Naval Academy. It was at NMMI where he perfected his passing, passing that led to the 1962 Heisman Trophy and the NFL.

Now, Kevin Askeland says he’s starting with 1910 but I’m going back one more year to 1909 for a good reason. It would be a shame not to have an All-American team from that year as by not doing one would leave out Chippewa Falls great quarterback Gus Dorais, so I’ve start there.

PROFILES:

1909…Gus Dorais…Chippewa Falls…Quarterback…Charles Emile Dorais transferred from Chippewa Falls Notre Dame H.S. to the local public school and he directed the Cardinals to the mythical state title. He used the forward pass and his running ability to guide the team to a 6-0-1 record. Dorais went to The University of Notre Dame where he, along with his roommate, Knute Rockne, began the revolution in the college passing game. The forward pass became legal in 1906 but it took until the Notre Dame vs. Army game in 1913. He went on to become a successful college coach as well spending a short time as a pro coach. It is his performance as a high schooler that puts him on the list. AND, for all others profiled here.

1910…Richard “Jab” Murray…Marinette…Offensive tackle/Defensive line…First team all-state, a four-year starter and considered one of the best linemen not only in 1910 but maybe since the state began high school football. He was fierce as a blocker and as a standout defender. He was also a standout as a basketball player. He attended Marquette and later served as mayor of Marinette nine times.

1910…Howard “Cub” Buck…Eau Claire…Line…A line smashing defender who played all over the field. At 6 ft., 250 pounds he dominated opponents on both sides of the line. A member of the Milwaukee Journal 1993 All-Century Team who was so well thought of 83-years later that he was a near unanimous pick. He was named to the college All-America team in 1915.

1911…Arlie Mucks…Oshkosh…Offensive tackle/ defensive end…Three-time All-State. A four-year starter. One of the state's best early 20th century athletes. Involved in one of the games of the decade between Oshkosh vs. Marinette in 1610 when Arlie Mucks battled “Jab” Murray. Oshkosh won 13-0 but it was even closer than the score indicated, and most fans concentrated on watching the two play against each. In 1911 Mucks was the only player to make the four known unofficial All-State teams. Like other athletes, he stared in basketball, baseball, but really excelled in track. He set not only set the state but the international scholastic records for the discus and the shot put as a junior. That led to him being eventually named to the 1912 U.S. Olympic team where he became the first high schooler to compete. He placed sixth in the discus. Standing 6,4 ½ and 250 pounds he also did the football teams kicking and even scored several touchdowns on reverse pitches to the big tackle. He went on to star at the University of Wisconsin.

1914…Howard Lee “Whitey” Woodin…Fort Atkinson…Lineman (Guard)…Started as a freshman on Fort’s 1911 undefeated, untied, unscored upon state champion team. As a guard, a position he played all his career, Woodin was named All-State and then moved on to play for Marquette and later for the Green Bay Packers.

1916…Rollie Williams…Edgerton…Halfback…Led Edgerton to the state title as they went undefeated, untied, and unscored upon, scoring 25 touchdowns and 14 extra points. He also stared on defense leading the team in tackles and interceptions. Fast, and powerful, Williams was courted by many colleges, including Iowa, Michigan, and Notre Dame before choosing to star in football and track at the University of Wisconsin.

1920…John “Bone”/ “Roc” Hancock…Superior…Fullback…named to both the 1910’s and 1920’s All-Decade Teams. Led Superior to undefeated 1918 (8-0-0) and 1920 (9-0-0) seasons while his junior year the team went 6-2-1 in 1919. The Vikings won the state title in 1920. Hancock scored 177 points in 1918, 153 points in 1919 and 155 points in 1920 for a career total of 485 points (73 touchdowns and 47 extra points), a record that stood as the state career record until 1980. He was a demon on defense as well and played hurt for much of his senior year. He also started on the basketball, baseball, track, and hockey teams. He had good speed but was converted to the tackle position as he started for three years at Iowa.

1920…Jim Crowley…Green Bay East…Left halfback…Coached by Curley Lambeau as a junior and a senior as Curley coached his Green Bay Packers. From his halfback position he ran, passed, and kicked East to an undefeated season as they rated #2 in the state to Superior. A match between them never materialized to officially determine the state mythical champion. (No official reason why East wouldn’t play Superior but maybe because of the Packers schedule Lambeau couldn’t find time to break away for one more high school game). The fleet footed back was heavily recruited but Lambeau helped steer him to Notre Dame where he became part of the legendary backfield known as “The Four Horsemen”. In 1925 Notre Dame beat Stanford in the Rose Bowl. Crowley led the Irish to victory as they beat a fine team led by fullback Ernie Nevers. Nevers was a former Superior star who played tackle and end in 1918 and 1919 before moving to California for his senior season.

1926…Clifford Goerke…Waukesha…Fullback/Kicker…Clifford helped the Blackshirts to an undefeated season (8-0-0) scoring 18 touchdowns and kicking 32 extra points for a total of 140 points. He also played a strong defense as a linebacker while handling all the kicking duties for the top-rated team in the Suburban Conference and one of the best in the state.

1927…Ernie Herber…Green Bay West…Quarterback…Voted in 1993 to the first team on the Milwaukee Journal Team of the Century (1893-1993). Considered the best quarterback with all the tools…a great passer, rusher, and kicker plus a fine defender. Herber played for the Green Bay Packers as a tailback, taking over from player-coach Curley Lambeau in the old Notre Dame Box offense and led the Packers to for 15 seasons and four NFL titles. It was his passing as a quarterback/tailback that influenced the modern passing attack.

1927…Jack Riley…Delafield St. John’s Military Academy…Tackle…A standout lineman who blew opponents away. Highly thought of by anyone who saw him play. Riley stood 6’2, 218 pounds who used his strength gained in early weight training to be a monster on the playing field and as a crew rower for the Lancers. He later become a two-time NCAA national champion wrestler as well as earning a silver medal in the 1932 Olympics. He was a three-year starter at Northwestern on the football team. He played two seasons in the NFL and became a professional wrestler as well.

1928…Art Kruger…Milwaukee Riverside…Center…For every game for three seasons as he earned first team all-City Conference each year. He was the most honored lineman in the early years of the conference. Art went on to play for Marquette and started all-three seasons of varsity play, earning All-American honors in 1932.

These players are the best of the early years: 1909-1929. More next time.

Thanks to Travis Wilson of WISSPORTS who also manages the WFCA web site for posting the updated version of the 11-player and 8-player records. Also, thanks to those who sent me additions. Keep them coming.

Also, Travis did a great job in tracking the additions to the records and you should check out his recap: Updated Football State Record Book following 2022 season (wissports.net)

RECAP OF 2022 RECORDS UPDATES AND A BIT MORE

I guess this will be an annual blog, writing about updates to the Wisconsin High School Football records lists on the WFCA web site… State Records (wifca.org) The new updates have been sent to be posted so check soon for your review.

Many players were added, some were already on the lists but moved up and, regretfully, I again trimmed some of the lists from both the 11-player and 8-player lists. A prime example was the 8-player list for Single Game Touchdown Passes. It had originally had a listing of any player who threw five or more touchdown passes. Now, the new version of the 8-player forma has only been around for 10 seasons it was needed to start somewhere so I started with five touchdowns in a single game. However, when I added all the new players to the list that had tossed five or more, the list grew from 45 players to 58. That was a ridiculously long list. In 11-player the list is for seven or more (29). So, I cut the 8-player list to start at six touchdowns and now there are also 29 players named. I had liked showing so many five-touchdown efforts since it showed most of the brilliant 2013 season effort of Gibraltar’s Nick Kita who tossed for a total of 45 scores that season. He’s still listed having thrown seven in a game, but the old list had him with five more games of five touchdowns each. Anyway, the list was trimmed.

More about 8-player some records:

Mellen’s Tommy Zakovec tossed seven td’s (As well as running for three more) in the huge offensive outbreak in September as Washburn defeated Mellen 114-92. I received a copy of the HUDL film and although some of it is a bit hard to follow because of the camera angle and some of the game was somehow lost, it’s fun to view. Tanner Lewis of Clayton and Nick Webster of Siren threw six touchdowns to make the list.

See the October 10 blog for all the records…AN OFFENSIVE EXPLOSION IN THE NORTHWOODS (wihifootball.com) In this game Washburn’s Brenden Watson set an all-school (11 or 8-player) record with 651-yards and 10 touchdowns scored. He also added a record tying 10 2-point conversion runs.

I added a new category, Most Points Responsible For In A Game. With the great efforts of Watson and Zakovec I created this to highlight their efforts. In addition, I was able to go back and document the 2013 single game effort by Maranatha Baptist’s Jordan Garrison who, on an 84-76 losing effort to Wayland already had his name in the record book for tossing 9-touchdowns and scoring twice. Even though the scoring plays were not entered into WISSPORTS or the local newspapers the 2-point conversions were listed in MaxPreps.com. Thanks to Rob Thompson of Maranatha for finding the info and sending it to me. I was able to confirm that besides being involved in 11 touchdowns Garrison was also involved in four 2-point conversions for a third-place listing in the records of 74 points. Watson leads with 86 points and Zakovec is second with 76 points.

There are many more 8-player additions but I want to mention two more players in particular…Hunter Cronauer and Ryan Roy, both of Wabeno/Laona. The two ended their careers by surging to the top of the defensive tackle’s charts. They tied for most tackles in a season, 184. Career wise, Cronauer tops the list with 462 tackles. Roy ended up a close second with 460 career tackles.

Check out all 8-player the stats for more info.

11-Player Updates:

In another earlier blog I mentioned the performances of Kohler/Sheboygan Lutheran/Christian quarterback Matt Breitenbach and receiver Noah Heinen. Matt made the single game passing yardage list with 468 yards and Noah set the single game reception record with 24 catches. He missed the single game receiving yardage record, taking those 24 receptions for 336 yards and four touchdowns. K/SL/C receiver Colin Girdaukas hauled in only seven passes in a 2020-Fall game for an incredible 339 yards to lead the listing and K/SL/C receiver Casey Verhagan in 2021 set the single game reception record when he had a big game hauling in 21 balls. They really like to throw the ball and develop great receivers at K/SL/C.

Last year I mentioned Colton Brunell from Columbus and this year he didn’t disappoint. After rushing for 2,221 yards and 31 touchdowns in 2021, he led his team to the Division 4 state title, going 14-0, rushing for 2,897 yards and 43 touchdowns. AND he’s only a junior!!!

With 5,118 career rushing yards and 78 overall career touchdowns he is 20th on the all-time career rushing charts and is very high on the career scoring list. He may not, with a comparable 2023 season, be able to pass up Random Lake’s Luke Hagel’s career scoring record of 802 points (Hagel scored 112 touchdowns, kicked 92 extra points, ran for 4 2-point conversions, and kicked 10 field goals). He scored 44 overall touchdowns in 2022. If he can duplicate that feat next year, he can tie for the all-time touchdown record. If the Cardinals can make it back to the finals again, he has a chance. He is only 1,815 yards away from passing up career rushing leader Tyler Tenner of Racine Lutheran. If he gains 2,000 yards next season, he could also become only the second Wisconsin running back to gain 2,000 yards in three separate seasons. Mike Firkus of Hilbert did this back in the 2000-02 seasons. I can’t wait for 2023.

Like Colton Brunell, Blake Schranfnagel of Mayville was mentioned last year and as a senior in 2022 he put up strong rushing and scoring totals…2,610 rushing yards and 43 overall touchdowns. He closed out his career with 5,734 career yards (Good for 11th place all-time) and 588 career points s cored (96 career touchdowns and six 2-point conversions…good for 9th place all-time). Blake was second in the state for scoring in 2022 with 262 points as Brunell nosed him out with 266.

Another new category: Most Points By A Team Overcoming a Large Deficit In A Game…was introduced. An earlier mention in a blog A BUSY TWO WEEKS FOR MANY (wihifootball.com). As mentioned in the story, Amory was down 52-20 to Somerset and overcame the 32-point deficit to win 62-58.

A number of players were added to the lists or moved up the records charts. We are finally coming out of the COVID period where games were cancelled and as a result, for the career lists fewer players reached the statistical heights they might have achieved had their full season and playoffs not been eliminated in 2020.

Special Notes:

Several schools faced the 2022 season with diminished numbers of players. I kept stats for Milwaukee Vincent this past year and there were few Milwaukee city teams that had enough players to even complete games. Some of this was the fact that Covid turned students off to the sport but for many it was failure to obtain passable grades. It’s a tough go for MPS.

Some other schools moved from 11-player to 8-player football at the last minute and one school, Delafield St. John’s, cancelled their varsity season and played only a JV schedule. That’s sad for the first Wisconsin high school that introduced the “modern” football rules in 1884. In fact, St. John’s was the first school…high school or college…west of the Allegheny Mountains (Western Pennsylvania) … to use the newly introduced rules, rules that schools in the east were using. St. John’s will probably participate in 8-player football in 2023.

As I mentioned earlier, Rob Thompson of Maranatha Baptist was just one of many who helped me by passing on information. Thanks, Rob.

My recent blog on MESSWOOD had an error and I thank Bradley Chopp let me know that some information about Shorewood football was incorrect. I can plead not wanting to go to the Milwaukee Public Library for exact information and using the internet for what I wrote. A minor mistake but a notable one…Shorewood was a charter member of the North Shore Conference in 1985 until they left in 1993. Why don’t I like going to the MPL to view microfilm? The film readers need updating. The ones in Cudahy, Waukesha and Oconomowoc are much newer and easier to use. My internet info had them in the Parkland.

When the playoffs began, I was surprised to see a team with a 6-2-1 record. It was the tie that stood out. I haven’t seen a school with a tie since 1972. I must have missed others having played to a tie, but this was a first for me. So, I inquired as to how it happened. In the season opener going into the fourth quarter Stratford was tied with Mosinee 20-20 when a lightning storm hit the area, The storm was to last until as late as 1am so they called the game. They could have resumed the next day, but they just called it a tie and the WIAA approved. Thanks to Kasey Smith of Mosinee as well as Craig Martens and Jason Tubbs for sending me answers to “Why the tie?”

In another blog series, Breaking Barriers…Part 2 (Oct. 26 posting), I featured a number of females from Wisconsin who had played varsity football. I occasionally post updates of my blogs on the WISSPORTS.NET High School Football section of the Forum. A guy who goes by the name “db11” posted a comment with links to a female who played for Newman Catholic named Lauren Fech who, in 2016, scored a touchdown and an extra point. It was October 7 in the second quarter against Greenwood that Lauren caught a 24-yard pass for a score and later, in the fourth quarter she kicked an extra point. The final score against Greenwood was 41-0 as Newman went 1-9 that year, their last in 11-player. In May 2017 she was named by WISSPORTS as the Bug Tussel player of the week… Triple Threat of the Week: Lauren Fech, Newman Catholic (wissports.net). Sorry I missed her for my blog but thanks for the heads up.

Mukwonago bunning back Wynn Stang was named not only to multiple All-State teams but also was named to the MaxPreps.com Wisconsin State Player of the Year... Wynn Stang named 2022 MaxPreps Wisconsin High School Football Player of the Year - MaxPreps. Also, check out MaxPreps other State Players of the Year...High school football: MaxPreps 2022 High School Football Player of the Year in each state - MaxPreps

Finally, I want to thank Travis Winkers of Darlington, William Trouten of Platteville and Jimmie Kaska of Boscobel who sent me records of their schools all-time won/lose records. They are great files and serve as very good historical documents.

HAPPY HOLIDAY’S and look for the blogs on the 1950’s and the 1990 St. Mary’s WISAA state champions coming soon.

MESSMER AND SHOREWOOD…THE LONG ROAD TO “MESSWOOD”…PART 3

Things had gone downhill for both Messmer and Shorewood in the 1970’s and 80’s and it carried forward. Messmer was a fixture on the Milwaukee northside as the city was seeing many changes. White flight to the suburbs was going on, the African American population was moving into the area to replace those who left. The strong German, Polish and Italian Catholic base was moving out. The first African Americans admitted to Messmer were in the early 1950’s and they were generally also Catholic. But as time went on that changed and after 1984 most students at the school were not Catholic. Those who attended from then on were from families who saw the value of an education that had better structure and discipline than the public schools in the area could provide. That didn’t necessarily connotate to bringing in great athletes to the school. Messmer produced some very good teams in sports other than football, but it was rough going. The school had as many as 1,150+ students in the 1950’s and the attendance continued into the 1960’s. But for most years there were 100-150 more females than males. The best record for the school’s football team after 1947 was 1963 when they posted an 8-2-0 record and finished in third place in the conference. A significant loss was the death of coach Michael Barrington who died in an auto accident in 1984.

Basketball and track became the major sports for the Bishops. In 1982 the basketball team went 25-4 and in 1987 they actually won a WISSA title. However, school attendance was declining in the Catholic schools and at Messmer in particular and the archdiocese decided to close the school along with several others in 1984. There were 974 students at Messmer in 1970 but by 1980 there were 650 and by 1983 there were 311 when the decision to close came along. A “Save Messmer Committee” was created, and the school was sold to Messmer High School, Inc. which ran the school after buying the building and contents for $375,000. When the school reopened in the fall of 1984 there were only 135 students and 14 teachers. Between 1984 and 1999 the school was not affiliated with the archdiocese but maintained its Catholic teachings as a private, independent Catholic school. The new focus for this new Catholic school wasn’t necessarily mainly religious as it had been in the past, although scripture was still part of the school courses.

The school had more of a community focus to help those in need, to serve their current attendee’s needs and as a result the school got stronger with an increase in attendance. The focus of what the school was attempting to do, inside the school and outside through outreach programs, was on social justice Yes, parents now had to pay more than in the past when it was affiliated with the archdiocese but the school still offered most of the same curriculum that it had when they had 1,000 students by keying in on more individual student needs and providing strong classes in science, math, and the humanities. Because of its standing in the community, when school choice arrived to help pay for private education, many parents jumped at the chance to have their child in a good, solid private school. In 1999 the school achieved renewed archdiocese accreditation and the football program that had been cancelled in 1984 was revived in 2001.

Meanwhile, less than two miles away, Sherwood football was having its own problems. After 1988, when the school posted a 3-6 record, the school had a miserable posting of 4-104. YES, four wins between 1989 and 1999, including the 63-game losing streak that was mentioned in PART II of this series. They also had a 32-game losing streak as well among the 104 losses in that timeframe. To say that the football program was on a downward spiral is to put it mildly. THEN, the private schools were admitted into the WIAA after the WISSA dissolved in the 1999-2000 school year. Both schools were at a crossroads. Shorewood had 750 students of which 75% were white. Messmer had 525 students of which 80% were from minority backgrounds.

Shorewood had a football stadium with an active, al be it, very struggling football program. Messmer had no team and few of the males at the school had played much more than pick0up games. To those people in Shorewood, Messmer was “that” school by the expressway (I-43). To the students at Messmer, Shorewood was “that” school across the river (The Milwaukee River). To many they were a million miles apart, not two.

Now, I’ve not done a lot of digging into Catholic schools that co-opted with other Catholic schools. I’m sure, as Francis Jordan, Notre Dame, Pio Nono, and a few other Milwaukee Catholic area schools were beginning to close there may have been something like this happening. And while it wasn’t super common for public schools to co-opt id did happen…Gale-Ettrick-Trempealeau (GET), Cambria-Friesland and Wittenberg-Birnamwood…to name a few. It has become more common among the schools that have 8-player football. But the merging of Shorewood and Messmer to play football was the first for having a private school and a public school join together.

2001 the team known as Shorewood/Messmer, with over 1,200 students, posted a lackluster 0-9 record, scoring few points while giving up many. Their first coach was Jim Trost who stayed for the one season before moving on to be the head coach at Horicon/Hustisford where he had some good success. It was in this timeframe where fans would cheer “GO Shorewood” or “Go Messmer” that someone chanted “Go Messwood” and the chant was born. To get a good feel for that first season together, read Greg J. Borkowski’s story from the November 25, 2001 edition of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel posted by the Marquette University Education Department… First and Long: Shorewood-Messmer endures rough inaugural season - Children in Urban America (marquette.edu)

The next season brought a former coach out of retirement to teak the reigns. That new coach was Hall of Fame Coach Ron Davies who had directed Kenosha Tremper to two consecutive WIAA state titles in 1979 and 1980. He had a strong resume for success. Davies had retired in 1993 after 18-seasons at Tremper. He would coach Messwood from 2002-08. Things started off slow, going 2-7 in 2002 and 0-9 in 2003 but the first signs of a revival came in 2004 when the team went 5-4. In the first six seasons under Davies the schools played in the Woodland West Conference division. In his final season the team would go 6-3 playing an independent schedule, they played four Milwaukee City Conference schools and five others from around the eastern part of the state, from Kenosha St. Joseph to Sevastopol. Only one of their three losses was a blowout otherwise they might have gone 8-1. The next two seasons were disasters, 0-9 in 2009 and 1-8 in 2010. In 2010 the school was placed in the Midwest Classic Conference by the WIAA conference realignment and there would be a revival for several years thereafter.

Under Drake Zortman, a former assistant at Homestead, Whitefish Bay and Nicolet, the team went 4-5, 7-2 and 7-3 from 2011-13. They won their first conference title in 2013. After Zortman left the program there were several other coaches including Tony Davis who took the 2018 team to the top of the Woodland East Conference, finishing with a 7-3 record and making the first round of the WIAA playoffs. They lost to Racine Horlick, but they have shown pride in what they have been able to overcome. In 2019 a documentary about the program was filmed and it is good viewing if you have a chance…'Messwood,' on Messmer-Shorewood football team, to debut at DOC NYC (jsonline.com)

While the teams haven’t won any state title’s and few conference trophy’s their story is one of people coming together. In a 2012 Journal Sentinel story about Messwood, former coach Ron Davies said that football teaches kids a lifetime of values about accountability. They have to take pride in what they do and not just show up. I think the kids playing for Messwood today are not just showing up

Finally: I’m not sure why a coopt team with Whitefish Bay Dominican (3-miles north east of Messmer), Glendale Nicolet (5.2-miles north of Messmer), Milwaukee Rufus King (.8-miles west of Messmer) or Whitefish Bay H.S, (3.1- miles north east of Messmer) never seems to have been proposed For that matter, what about a Shorewood coopt team with Whitefish Bay H.S (1.8-miles north of Shorewood) or Milwaukee Riverside (1.4 miles south of Shorewood) also never seemed to be proposed. I’m noy saying any of these other choices would have been better. I’m just curious. These are all schools both Messmer and Shorewood have played against in other sports at other times so it’s not that they are unfamiliar with each other and I’m not advocating it now. Just food for thought.